Comment 1 Mohammad Anwari 2009-10-13 13:46:36 UTC

Reassign to Joaquim

This is the correct behavior as far as I know.

I'm reassigning it to specs.

Comment 3 Simon Pickering (reporter) 2009-10-14 17:28:32 UTC

If that's correct behaviour it's really annoying :)

Comment 4 Ryan Abel 2009-10-14 19:26:24 UTC

(In reply to comment #2)
> This is the correct behavior as far as I know.
> 
> I'm reassigning it to specs.
> 

Then the specification is clearly buggy (as usual).

Comment 5 Andre Klapper 2009-10-16 15:14:52 UTC

From the UI Spec:

4.5.3.1 Backspace
A single press on the Backspace key removes the character preceding the cursor,
or in case of a highlight, the highlighted area.

Comment 6 Simon Pickering (reporter) 2009-10-16 15:23:41 UTC

> From the UI Spec:

> 4.5.3.1 Backspace
> A single press on the Backspace key removes the character preceding the cursor,
> or in case of a highlight, the highlighted area.

That's all fine, but is not what the bug is about.

The bug is that when typing, and the blue auto-completion text appears, it is
the autocompletion text that is removed (i.e. the blue text to the right of the
cursor position) rather than the last char typed (to the left of the cursor)
when the backspace key is pressed. This has nothing to do with highlighting.

Comment 7 Andre Klapper 2009-10-16 15:32:37 UTC

Argh, my brain is borken. Highlighting != proposal, true.

4.7.9 HW keyboard word completion
[...]
Pressing the backspace key once will remove the best candidate in the text
input field; pressing the backspace key again will remove the character
proceeding the cursor.

Comment 8 Simon Pickering (reporter) 2009-10-16 15:39:10 UTC

Hmm, ok, spec is counter-intuitive then IMHO.

(In reply to comment #8)
> Hmm, ok, spec is counter-intuitive then IMHO.
> 

I personally think it would be pretty boring to keep seeing the suggested words
every time one inputs a backspace.

I like it the way it is.

Comment 10 Simon Pickering (reporter) 2009-10-16 16:47:05 UTC

Backspace is generally used to delete something you've just typed. In this case
it doesn't do that. I'd quite happy if it deleted the last typed char and
didn't suggest new words until you type another letter.

The real issue here is when people want to stop writing but the autocompletion
text is there (e.g. I've written "combine" but autocompletion is wondering if I
actually want "combine-harvester"), knowing what you can press to get it to not
auto-complete. I'd be in favour of pressing the left-arrow to get rid of it,
right-arrow to auto-complete, and backspace to delete the last char (the way it
works everywhere else one types).

But that's just me of course ;)

(In reply to comment #10)
> Backspace is generally used to delete something you've just typed. In this case
> it doesn't do that. I'd quite happy if it deleted the last typed char and
> didn't suggest new words until you type another letter.
> 
> The real issue here is when people want to stop writing but the autocompletion
> text is there (e.g. I've written "combine" but autocompletion is wondering if I
> actually want "combine-harvester"), knowing what you can press to get it to not
> auto-complete. I'd be in favour of pressing the left-arrow to get rid of it,
> right-arrow to auto-complete, and backspace to delete the last char (the way it
> works everywhere else one types).
> 
> But that's just me of course ;)
> 

I think it is less "expensive" to press twice the backspace key in order to
remove the last inputted char than to remove it with one backspace press and
then having to re-type the deleted char in case the user didn't want to remove
the previous char.

This is a won't fix imho.

Comment 12 Simon Pickering (reporter) 2009-10-16 17:14:22 UTC

> I think it is less "expensive" to press twice the backspace key in order to
> remove the last inputted char than to remove it with one backspace press and
> then having to re-type the deleted char in case the user didn't want to remove
> the previous char.

If you look at the location of the cursor, the backspace key should be deleting
chars to its left, so the user shouldn't even be using backspace to remove the
auto-completion text.

> This is a won't fix imho.

Unfortunately, I expect you are right.

Comment 13 Ryan Abel 2009-10-16 19:17:10 UTC

(In reply to comment #11)
> This is a won't fix imho.
> 

That would be an awfully unfortunate decision. This "feature" drives me
absolutely insane.

At the very least, can we get a gconf setting we can fiddle. :/

(In reply to comment #11)
> I think it is less "expensive" to press twice the backspace key in order to
> remove the last inputted char than to remove it with one backspace press and
> then having to re-type the deleted char in case the user didn't want to remove
> the previous char.

It could be less "expensive" but the user experience is a fail in this case. 
In every device I have had until now, the backspace key delete the last typed
character, and IMHO it should remain so.
After one month using the N900 I continue making mistakes in my writings
because this "feature".

Comment 15 Andre Klapper 2009-10-19 12:05:52 UTC

Internal comment:
"This is too big change to auto completion feature, and frankly I'm not sure is
it even a good change. At least it would require more usability feedback. =>
WONTFIX; too risky change in Fremantle. Maybe it can be evaluated in
Harmattan."

(I've added it to my Harmattan list)

Comment 16 Ryan Abel 2009-10-19 18:41:36 UTC

(In reply to comment #15)
> Internal comment:
> "This is too big change to auto completion feature, and frankly I'm not sure is
> it even a good change. At least it would require more usability feedback. =>
> WONTFIX; too risky change in Fremantle. Maybe it can be evaluated in
> Harmattan."
> 

Boo! Hiss!

I guess we need to take this to Brainstorm, then.

(In reply to comment #16)
> (In reply to comment #15)
> > Internal comment:
> > "This is too big change to auto completion feature, and frankly I'm not sure is
> > it even a good change. At least it would require more usability feedback. =>
> > WONTFIX; too risky change in Fremantle. Maybe it can be evaluated in
> > Harmattan."
> > 
> 
> Boo! Hiss!
> 
> I guess we need to take this to Brainstorm, then.
> 

I think you are overreacting and not really seeing the whole thing. In my
opinion, it'd be a pain to have to choose to press left to remove the WC and
while the backspace kept giving me suggestions... It's 2 types on backspace to
remove the typed char only! If you don't have WC, only 1 is needed, this means
that once you press twice initially, you will only have to press once since
then.

Also, if we implement the changes you say, then it will be inconsistent with
the FKB as there is no left key and you must either use the backspace to remove
the WC or tap outside the suggested words' bounds, probably ending up changing
the cursor's place...

Really guys, I respect and consider your vision but I don't see why so much
fuss on one extra key press!

Comment 18 Simon Pickering (reporter) 2009-10-19 19:09:50 UTC

The fuss is mainly as the keypress in question, backspace, is inconsistent with
the result.

My suggestion was just that, there may be other/better ways to not have to use
backspace to remove the auto-complete text. Then again perhaps there are not
and this is the best method, but I suppose we can kick the idea around on
Brainstorm and see what other people suggest.

Comment 19 Ryan Abel 2009-10-19 19:16:15 UTC

(In reply to comment #17)
> I think you are overreacting and not really seeing the whole thing.
> 

I think you've been behind the cathedral walls too long and have become
entrenched, but that's just my opinion and doesn't have much to do with the
usability issues involved in any solution :)

> In my opinion, it'd be a pain to have to choose to press left to remove the WC and
> while the backspace kept giving me suggestions... It's 2 types on backspace to
> remove the typed char only! If you don't have WC, only 1 is needed, this means
> that once you press twice initially, you will only have to press once since
> then.

I NEVER have a reason to remove the autocomplete suggestion, I OFTEN have
reasons to remove my recently typed text. The end result? For the VAST MAJORITY
of times I'm pressing the backspace key I'm having to do it twice. This results
in quite a few extra unnecessary keystrokes over time.

> Also, if we implement the changes you say, then it will be inconsistent with
> the FKB as there is no left key and you must either use the backspace to remove
> the WC or tap outside the suggested words' bounds, probably ending up changing
> the cursor's place...
> 

That one is easy: bug #4948

> Really guys, I respect and consider your vision but I don't see why so much
> fuss on one extra key press!
> 

Do you use the device on a daily basis? You had the same opinion about
rebinding hardware keys. I think you need to reevaluate your unified vision of
how you see everybody using their devices, because not everybody uses them
exactly like you. :)

Comment 20 Ryan Abel 2009-10-19 19:24:56 UTC

Just, fyi, once again, as on Diablo, because autocomplete succeeds only in
making text entry more difficult I'm turning it off again.

Comment 21 Andre Klapper 2009-10-19 19:27:12 UTC

Can we please keep a constructive tone here?
If not I can understand why Nokia developers don't see a reason to spend time
in public Bugzilla.

Thanks.

(In reply to comment #19)
> (In reply to comment #17)
> > I think you are overreacting and not really seeing the whole thing.
> > 
> 
> I think you've been behind the cathedral walls too long and have become
> entrenched, but that's just my opinion and doesn't have much to do with the
> usability issues involved in any solution :)

I don't know what you're trying to say with that. Please don't form an opinion
of the people you don't know just because you read a few of my answers and I,
as a user, disagree with you. And, as Andre says, being polite never harmed
anyone.

> 
> I NEVER have a reason to remove the autocomplete suggestion, I OFTEN have
> reasons to remove my recently typed text. The end result? For the VAST MAJORITY
> of times I'm pressing the backspace key I'm having to do it twice. This results
> in quite a few extra unnecessary keystrokes over time.

Well, that doesn't happen to me, I already press twice automatically and don't
note the extra effort. But I understand your point.

> 
> > Also, if we implement the changes you say, then it will be inconsistent with
> > the FKB as there is no left key and you must either use the backspace to remove
> > the WC or tap outside the suggested words' bounds, probably ending up changing
> > the cursor's place...
> > 
> 
> That one is easy: bug #4948

So, your answer to this is: add arrow keys to the FKB!??
That's more easier said than done. The FKB must be really well planned so it
has useful, complete keys while not stuffing it more.

> 
> > Really guys, I respect and consider your vision but I don't see why so much
> > fuss on one extra key press!
> > 
> 
> Do you use the device on a daily basis? You had the same opinion about
> rebinding hardware keys. I think you need to reevaluate your unified vision of
> how you see everybody using their devices, because not everybody uses them
> exactly like you. :)
> 

I use the device on a daily basis and while there's is some stuff I have found
that should be improved (imho), I also think this one is not really a problem.
And I must tell you the "not everybody uses them exactly like you" too because
there might be some people, like me, who think that removing the last inserted
char and keep getting suggested suffixes would be more painful than pressing a
key twice. :)

Ive been using the n900 regularly since the maemo summit and I personally found
this quite annoying when I was typing. Like some of the others, i've had to
press backspace twice when typing to get rid of a mis-typed character and often
i havent realised that this has happened (as it is instinct to only press
backspace once if ive made a mistake) and have had to go back to a typo to
correct it. As this is now a won't fix, ive turned off auto complete.